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37 | Building and Cleaning: My Road from Mortgages to Mops | Shawn Day

37 | Building and Cleaning: My Road from Mortgages to Mops | Shawn Day

From mortgages to a cleaning company to a recruiting company


Join Shawn Day on a thrilling entrepreneurial journey from launching a successful mortgage company to innovating the cleaning industry, culminating in a revolutionary hiring process that transforms how cleaning businesses staff up.

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Alternate Titles For The Algorithm:

Mortgage to Mop: My Entrepreneurial Journey

From Mortgages to Mops: A Business Evolution

Cleaning Up in Business: My Path Through Mortgages and Beyond

Sweeping Success: Mortgages to Cleaning Empire

The Right Exit: My Transition from Mortgages to Maid Service

Sparkling Success: Building Businesses from the Ground Up

Dusting Off Dreams: My Entrepreneurial Leap from Mortgages

The Clean Break: My Shift from Mortgages to Maid Mastery

From Loans to Soap Scones: An Unlikely Business Journey

Scrubbing Up Success: My Story from Mortgage Mogul to Cleaning Champ

Hiring Shine: The Path from Mortgages to Staffing Solutions

Sweeping Changes: My Business Odyssey from Finance to Filth Fighting

From Closing Deals to Cleaning Seals: My Entrepreneurial Pivot

Clean Slate: From Mortgage Magnate to Janitorial Giant

Mortgages to Maintenance: Crafting My Business Dynasty

The Sparkle of Success: Mortgages, Mops, and Making It Big

From Financial Foundations to Sanitation Solutions: My Business Journey

Building and Cleaning: My Road from Mortgages to Mops

Dust to Dollars: My Entrepreneurial Shift from Housing to Cleaning

The Entrepreneur's Clean Sweep: From Mortgages to Hiring Hacks

Show Notes


Speaker 2: Hey, you all. This is your host, Elyse Robinson with the Nobody Wants to Work, though podcast, season 2. I hope the stories inspire you to switch careers. I have done all kinds of interesting things in my life, and I'm a firm believer if you only live once. Sit back and enjoy.


Speaker 1: We are Switch into Tech. Tech resources to accelerate your career in information technology. Monthly classes on tech topics. We We offer free or discounted exam vouchers, scholarships, free Udemy courses, free events, free boot camps, and more. You can find us at www. Switchintotech. Org.


Speaker 2: Hey, you all. My name is Elyse Robinson with the Nobody Wants to Work, though podcast. Today, we have Sean, and he started a mortgage company, a cleaning company, and now he's a recruiter. So I'm excited to talk to him. Go ahead and introduce yourself, Sean.


Speaker 1: Sure. So I'm Sean Day. Coming to Ohio. And I started out years ago at enterprise Rent-a-car. Lasted in the corporate world for about a year and got out of there. And as Elyse said, after that, I got a mortgage company going for 10 years. And the mortgage company, I got out just before the crash One of the crashes and banking incidents. But people that don't know me, I tell them I'm a genius. People that don't know me know better. And so I locked out. And what's that like? I'm playing intentionally. I locked out. There was a little lady, a friend of our family that had been in the mortgage business and banking business for 30 some years at that time. And that's when the subprime stuff was coming out and some of the junk stuff and hedge funds were getting involved with it and all that. Well, she said, she made a comment It went something like this. I can't believe Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are now doing subprime loans. Something bad is going to happen. And for whatever reason, that smacked me right in the face super hard. And I'm like, I got to get out of this business.


Speaker 1: And it was about a year after that, we had a crash. And so I decided to start a cleaning company. And I did that in 2004-ish, I think it was, and built it up to about 40 employees and had a nice business there and ended up selling it in 2015. And what had happened was I sold it to a company, and we got together and we started buying other cleaning companies together as a growth strategy through acquisitions. We got to about 100 employees in about six states, and I think we had 11 businesses at that time, home service businesses, window cleaning, maid service, and things like that, pressure washing. And at that point, I started a recruiting division of the company. I said, We need to start. Somebody needs to start this. What's wrong? Is it a true idea? Why don't you go ahead and say something? It took me about a year and a half to put it together. We're not a staffing... We didn't set it up like a staffing agency. We literally just had a diversion that did nothing but recruiting for our home service businesses around the country. That takes me up to the cleaning and then the recruiting stuff.


Speaker 1: But what had happened was we started to It went really, really well. We had gone to a conference and talked to some of our colleagues out there that owned window cleaning companies and home service businesses, and they were complaining that nobody wants to work. That's the whole name of this game, this podcast. Nobody wants to work, and so on and so forth. I'm like, we got tons of people that are coming in. We got this great system. It's working great for us. So long story short, we had no vision on doing this for anybody else other than our own company. And so we started to add other companies to what we already were doing for ourselves and just treated them like real operations. Even though we didn't own the company, it was just the same system, the same process, the same scoring system we put together to screen the blue collar type with employees. The next thing I know, we're recruiting for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of different health service businesses around the country. And we've got some other things, too, dental offices and daycares and some other things that we've worked into. But that's my biography the fee of 35 years of being self-employed in a nutshell.


Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's super exciting. I love that you paid attention because I think one thing that people don't do, whether in their career or business is they don't pay attention. That's really critical. I don't know how old I was. I'm guessing early 20s during that time. I didn't really understand what was going on with the mortgage. I wasn't getting a mortgage. But as I got older, I understood that they were basically giving loans to people that didn't necessarily qualify for them. We might be back to that point with 600,000 homes and 8% interest rates. But I guess- You're right. It didn't cost that much nowhere near. But I recently went Last week and saw the newer houses compared, because my house is almost 100 years old. I wanted to see what 600,000 would get you in comparison to a 100-year-old home that in Ohio is just what you're usually going to get. They're an hour away from downtown, almost. My My rooms in my house are huge. I can put a couch in every room, and you can't do those in the new houses. The bathrooms are huge, are bigger than the rooms. So I'm like, This is what 600,000 gets you.


Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah. And then outside of that, you said you have a scoring model. And one of the things that set me off to start this podcast, too, are all of the processes that these companies are making you go through. I mean, there's places that are doing seven, eight interviews. They're paying Squat. Right. And they want you to do these tests, exams, and presentations, and all this other stuff. Please tell me you don't do all that stuff.


Speaker 1: No. You know what? I'll tell you exactly what we do. So this makes us different. We're not a staffing agency. We're not a temp agency. We're not even a direct recruiting agency where they take a % of the annual wage. What we do is we act very much like a marketing agency that says, Hey, I'll manage your Facebook ads or your Google ads, and we'll charge you a management fee to do that. Then you're going to need to to come up with some money for a budget to advertise those ads that we're managing for you. And the end of the equation is you'll get some clients from that. It's almost identical with us. So we've revolutionized the way that we do it because we started to recruiting division for our own company. We didn't envision doing this for anybody else. So what we did was we would go on job boards, host all these jobs, and sponsor them. We'd get applications low coming in, and we'd have an interview and we'd hire. And so that's what we do for our clients. So no, we don't do that. In fact, I feel with technology, we have automations and workflows, and my scoring system is such that You answer a few questions.


Speaker 1: I believe in my scoring system that helps. And the way that I look at it, too, at least, is a little bit differently. I'm not necessarily using it to screen you away. I'm doing it to screen art our business, our culture, to make sure that we are a good fit for you, the job candidates. That's really what I do, is I look through the lens of job candidates. So once you get through the screening, it's either you passed or you didn't. And if you passed, you're immediately getting a link to interview. And that interview is the in-person interview. And that's where we say our way of interviewing is completely different, too. And so what we do is, I think you'll love this. Again, it's different. So you go, you set up the interview, and we have automated email and text that goes out like everybody else does. But ours is a little bit different in that it says what to expect at the interview. And this is what we have. We have an employee testimonial that says, I want to tell you, my name's Sean. I've been with ABC Companies now for three years. I want to tell you why you're going to wake up every morning and love to come to work for us.


Speaker 1: And then it says, the interview is zero questions, zero stress. It will be a 20 to 30 minute presentation by the owner or manager to tell you why you're going to wake up every morning and love to come to work for us. And that's exactly what it is. It's a group interview And what we do is we have literally a presentation that goes over our culture. Well, let me back up. It goes over where we started, where we're at today, where we want to be in five years from now. And this is we need you guys in front of us. And then we talk about our values in our culture. And we really spend a lot of time on that. So much that what we tell people is, we don't want you to change. You are who you are and we respect that. However, if you are not already living your life like this, then please don't accept the job even if we offer it to you because it will not work for you. You will not like coming to work every day. And And that's our interview. And what happens, it's the best screening that I've ever seen in my life.


Speaker 1: It's true screening. First of all, you'll see when we talk about the culture and core values, some people are doing this on the phone, some people are looking out the window, maybe something like this. Others are like this. They're going like this. They're asking questions. And it's like moose is in the Red Sea. You'll notice these people are in the red, they're not getting excited about it. The ones And then over here, you're going to have two or three that are getting really, really excited and asking questions about it. And we go through a whole presentation. And at the end, normally, a group of them stand up and say, Thank you very much. I hope to hear from you. And they walk out the door. Two or three stick around and literally will tell you, and it's almost always, and it's only two or three, they'll tell you, Never seen an interview like that. I love what I heard and I really, really want to get this job. And if we're hiring, we put our hand out and we They say, You're hired. Subject to a few things. Our insurance company wants us to do some background stuff.


Speaker 1: But in this labor market, if you've passed my screening, and by the way, only about 10 % do, so it's not easy to pass the screening. You've proven to me that you're better than 90 % of the people that applied for that job. That is something to say. That's huge. Then I want to find out, are we good enough for you? And the way that I explain it to my staff and to our clients is, you treat that interview like it's the biggest sale of your life. And that's exactly the way we look at it.


Speaker 2: I want to see the questions that you use the screen. But yeah, you can do a lot with literally... What word am I looking for? I see the dots, the multiple choice questions. You know what I'm trying to say. It's the end of the day. But yeah, I mean, one of my other reasons for starting the podcast was the crazy interview process. It's like we're doing six interviews and they're asking you the same questions over and over again. And it's like a damn hazing process. And it's like, my whole thing is that they're doing this interview interview process and screening me worse than most people screen their spouses. And a spouse can literally ruin your life. You're not doing all these tests and stuff when you're trying to get to know someone, you're just not. It's really crazy for the interview process. And I get that someone can ruin a business and cost you money, but there's insurances and things, usually for that type of stuff. You don't have insurance when you're bringing somebody in your house and you're laying next to them.


Speaker 1: No, that was good business.


Speaker 2: People are having children and all that stuff and a whole bunch of other stuff in the mix, which is totally... They're just not doing that type of screening. So it just never made sense to me. And maybe they do need to screen better up front like you're doing, and ask certain questions. So we weed people out because there's just literally, you can just throw applications out now, and that's the problem. So yeah, I mean, That's my opinion on it anyway. You can agree or disagree, but- Well, I agree wholeheartedly.


Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many different assessments and predictive indexes. And I always tell people, I think it's like a predictive index that, one question, but give me 100 adjectives to describe you. And it's like, come on, a hundred. A couple of things with that. Number one, those assessments and personality tests and disk profiles and the like all have their place. I don't want to badmouth them. That's not what I'm here to do. But if I'm a job candidate, I can look up today on YouTube and find out, I want to do the predictive index for a job that I'm trying to apply for or the disk profile, and it's for this position. How should I answer those questions? I will find 50 YouTube episodes on that. I will find Google. It will give me a thousand different answers on how to do that. And I'm sure AI now, if I put that into the prompt, will tell me exactly how to take that test, how to answer what they're looking for to get that position. I am humble enough to say that Shaday's scoring system cannot be looked up because I'm not important enough to have it be looked up.


Speaker 1: And it's been around for eight years, not 40 years. And so it's not something that is easily cheatable. You can't really cheat it. At least now, maybe one day, if we get real big and all that good stuff, and that's not my goal. But with technology, there's good and bad. And I think you got to be careful on who's taking the test because the answers are all over the Internet.


Speaker 2: No, I had I had an interview one time, and I didn't know that this was an interview question. Never thought to even Google it. I'm just like, Why the hell are they asking me this question? And the question was, If you could be any animal, what animal could you be? And then, I think this was in my early 20s, and I'm like, This is just dumb.


Speaker 1: I hate those questions. I hate those.


Speaker 2: This is just dumb. What is it got you with the job?


Speaker 1: It's insulting.


Speaker 2: It wasn't until maybe a couple of years back, someone told me, Oh, that's a standard interview question, and you can Google the right answer because my dumb bud, I'll just be like, I'll be a rat. That's not animals. They're looking at me crazy, probably like, Why didn't she Google or practice with the questions? My whole thing is, most of the interviews that I've been on, I've never been asked the same question. So why would I practice? You can throw any oddball question at me and practice for what? I should know myself. I know my experience. But when throwing oddball questions at me like that. Why would I practice that? That has nothing to do with the job. And if you want to talk about personality and all that stuff, I've hired and fired people, and not I'm not here to say that I didn't care what their personality is, but we're here to make money. I'm not here to get in all in your business and things like that. I don't really care what's going on. If there is something going on in your life, I'm the type of boss to give you lee Anyway.


Speaker 2: But outside of that, do your job, and I'm going to do my job, and we can go home. I don't have to do all that buddy-buddy stuff with you. That's my whole take on it. But people want to get in their feelings. My mother used to call it high school. She was like, When you go to work, it's like high school, and everybody has their clicks, and they bully people and all that other stuff. I never wanted to do I just wanted to go to work and come home, and that was it.


Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what you're there for. So here's a question for you. After you said that, something popped in my mind. Would You've got social media, obviously, like crazy now. 25 years ago, you couldn't go on to social media like you can today. Maybe my space was around, but Facebook might not have been by 25 years ago or so. And see people's personal stuff, the Instagram, the Facebook. And I assure you that when I was 20-some years old, I'm not the same man that I am at 56 years old. Those pictures, the kids, those things are going to be on there for a long, long, long time. And I'm like, somebody's got a beer in their hand and they're this and they're that. I just think that that's their personal life. And you have a professional life and a professional career, and you have your personal life. I think to try to look into that and tie into that personal life is a little bit... I think you got to be careful of that because I think you can get rid of a lot of people that are having fun, that are living their lives outside of the workplace, that could be a wonderful employee for you, and you're going to be biased on either the way they look, the way they're acting online or whatever it is.


Speaker 1: Now, there's some certain things that could probably benefit you. But if it's a five-year-old picture, that might not be the same person that is there today. I would hope not. I don't think any of us are the same person we were five years ago. But I may be wrong. I want your opinion on that? Do you think that's actually a beneficial thing to do?


Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, that's my generation because I got my first picture when I was nine years old, so I'm a millennial and I grew up with no internet, then jumping to the internet and cell phones. I've been all through all that stuff. It's funny because I have a nephew, he's 11, and it's funny watching him do this stuff. But he thinks that I'm old and all that stuff. I'm like, Yeah, I did that stuff already. But anyway.


Speaker 1: But to answer your question, I I'm on social media.


Speaker 2: I'm not as as I used to be. I used to have a Facebook and all the other stuff and post all the time and have thousands of friends that I never met. There were people that I would talk to on a daily, and I have never met them. Then one day I was like, What is the point of this? I guess I grew up. I guess I grew up. That was in my mid-30s. Because I I was really into social media, too, because I was living in a whole different country and things like that. So I will post all the time. But at a certain point, I was like, This takes a lot of energy. I could be doing something else with my time. And I just stopped. And this is what I do now. I do seminars, I do my podcast, and that's my social media. And I have a newsletter. That's what I do. But that's my business and professional type of stuff. I do that, too. So I don't really have the time to do the fun stuff. But to dig deeper on it affecting people's lives and cutting them off from opportunities, I don't know because we've never had anything where someone in another time zone 5,000 miles away can read what you're saying.


Speaker 2: Right. I see people posting, Oh, I got the keys because you're in the mortgage business. And I'm like, Don't put that on the internet. Why are you putting your house on the internet? You know what I'm saying? And it's bad enough that people can just Google you and all this stuff and piece things together. I don't know what to say with it. There's a certain fine line that you have to walk on what to say and do and all this other stuff. But I could be totally happy without it because I've cut a lot of it out of my life at this point. I've cut TV out of my life when I was living in Mexico. I didn't even own a TV because I rented a furnished apartment, and they never had a TV, and I didn't buy one. I was out in the streets every day. Yeah, I've cut a lot of that stuff out, and it's for good reason. It can harm you with the brainwashing and the comparing yourself to other people. I know that's a big one.


Speaker 1: Yeah, it is.


Speaker 2: So, yeah, I mean, I weep for my generation and the generation after me and the next generation because, you know Comparison is a thief of joy. It is. That's it. That's what all we're doing nowadays is comparing. So it is what it is. And you don't know what's real and what's fake. And that's right.


Speaker 1: Right. And I hear a lot of business, small business owners, especially in our home service space, where we're hiring pretty much hourly rate, 20, 25 hour labor. And I hear a lot of business owners, nobody wants to work, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah Is that problem? We all know it's a tight labor market. Unemployment was at a 40 or 60 year, 3.4%, January of 2023. We hadn't seen 3.4% since somebody was on the moon. And that's a long time ago. And it's like, it's like this. I would tell them, first of all, we're hiring thousands of people across the country for small businesses. So it's not true because I'm doing this every single day of my life. Number two, I think you need to think about it's a... We have to deal with reality. We can't deal with what we hope the world should be or why they should be different. And when my kids ask me, what's What's the secret to life or happiness? And I said, I think I figured it out, honestly. It's you accept the people in the world and the world as it is, not as what you think it should be.


Speaker 1: Because if you accept people and you accept the world as it is, as faulty as we are and as faulty as the world is, you accept reality. It's hard to be in conflict with anything because you're accepting it. So I tell people, a lot of the people you're looking to hire in their 20s and 30s were... It somewhere in there was the first generation to grow up with a screen in their hand from day one. When you were driving down the road, mom or dad would hand you a video thing and say, just watch this and be quiet. It was the first generation that received participation trophies for not winning, but for growing up. And whatever you think about that is irrelevant because it's the reality. That's what the reality is. So how can we blame that generation of kids growing up when they become adults and they're living in a bubble and they have safe zones and all these things now? We don't judge those things. I'm just saying it's reality. So your problem isn't that these kids don't want to work. Your problem is a lack of leadership on how you can explain to them and show them and give them a vision as to why it's good to work hard, why you're going to move up in the company, and why I'm going to take care of you, even though we don't give raises for just showing up.


Speaker 1: And that's why? Because it's really good to feel rewarded when you do a good job. That's a good thing for you to work hard and be rewarded for. And sometimes I think we lack a little bit of leadership avoiding reality. And we're trying to deal with... I think it goes back to Socrates. We're going to have to remember back then when he had to quote something about the young kids of the day are rather than be talking indoors than working outdoors. It was something like that. So this has been a complaint from generation after generation after generation, really back when Socrates was around. So that's all.


Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if it was Socrates. It might have been him, but it was a quote, and they were basically saying the same thing over and over again, just like we were talking about. They keep saying nobody wants to work. And I'm I'm like, Oh, okay. Well, they've been saying that forever. That makes perfect sense because they say history repeats. But my whole thing is when they say nobody wants to work, I can put that back on businesses. You know what I'm saying? I've been in businesses and I'm like, or I contact someone and no one ever calls me again. It's like, you can't sit up here and say nobody wants to work when I'm trying to give you some money. That's what you're in business for. An example, I called a company to come out and look at my tree because we had a big storm and the tree was just all over the place. I'm like, it needs to be trimmed. I don't know. I called somebody, nobody ever called me back. You can't say nobody wants to work when you're not calling anybody back. But are you going to put on you as the business owner, or are you going to put in your employees, though?


Speaker 2: Because they might put it on the employees and say, Hey, an employee didn't do their job and they didn't want to work. So which one?


Speaker 1: 99% of the time, it's the business owner It's their fault. And they have a hard time looking in the mirror sometimes, man. I talk to dozens and dozens and dozens of business owners every single week, ranging from maybe a quarter million dollars in sales and then millions and millions of dollars in sales and everything in between. Somebody that's trying to get their first employee all the way up to franchises and everything in between. And you can just instantly tell the ones that are going to... That have good leadership skills because they're focusing on the solution, the problems, and the repeating it and repeating it. I am big into ego and perception stuff. I go around and I speak around the country at different associations and stuff. In the simplest way that I explain good leadership is in perception management or perception leadership, I call it, is if we look down on the ground and there's a number six, and your employee is standing on one end of that six, and I'm standing as the business owner on the opposite end. And the employee says, this is the number 6. I'm looking at the number 6.


Speaker 1: Remember, you're on the other end of that. You're going, Hell, no, it's not. It's a number nine. And you're looking at that going, It is a nine. And the really bad leader and the person that's not going to be able to grow their business, the one that doesn't understand, looking through the lens of their employee and understanding what they see, what they smell, what they taste, what they hear, what their experiences are. We call that perception. A good leader walks over to their employee, puts their arm around them maybe, or maybe put some of your hand on their shoulder and says, what are you talking about? Let me take a look and let me listen and see what you see. And behold, you're going to see a number six over there and you're going to be agreeing with that employee instead of yelling and screaming at them that it's a number nine. That's a really easy way to understand. And so when something happens with an employee, the first instinct sometimes, because you've been burned so many times by poor employees, instead of accepting that that's just... You're not going to have perfect employees for 30 years and retire.


Speaker 1: Okay, I got news for you. Ain't happening. So you have to deal with each employee individually because they are an individual. With different experiences, different backgrounds. And I don't know, when I wake up sometimes and have a bad morning or I have a bad day or something's going on in my family with cancer, I've got a brother that's got cancer issues. My mom's 87. She's She's not going to be around forever. I'm very dearly in love with my mother, and she's a good friend of mine and very close with her. We don't know how I'm going to be that day if you give me some grief, if something's going on with my family and something's going on. Well, what about your employees? You can't let them have that either. Instead of not understanding, instead of not going on the other side of that man and asking them what they're going through and looking through their life and through their lens, Until you figure that part out and do that day in and day out, you're not going to be a very good leader and you're not going to be able to lead them to your vision.


Speaker 1: And that's a problem with some small businesses today. And I see it all the time.


Speaker 2: Yeah. And that circles back to what I'm saying about, I just want to go to work. You should give me some leeway on life circumstances. Absolutely. I had a boss one time, and I took a day off, and she come texting me and talk about, Why are you taking a day off? And I told her, I'm taking a mental health day. There ain't none of your business. And she could ask me that because I'm like, There's a thing called going postal. Don't give me the time if I can't take it. What's this benefit for if I can't take it? It's just stupid things like that. I don't want to be in my employee's business. If they want to tell me their business, that's perfectly fine. And I'll give you time and whatever else because I know you're a human being, but we're here to work.


Speaker 1: Yeah.


Speaker 2: And work ain't supposed to be fun and all that other stuff. We aren't even getting into the questions. That's funny, but I'm totally enjoying the conversation. But let's see. The next question is, what did you want to be when you grew up?


Speaker 1: Man, is this going to sound corny? So when I was growing up, there was a TV show called Bewitched, and you probably heard of Bewitched, and there was a movie Bewitched. So I think Will Farrell was in it, I think. Anyway, so Daran on there was an advertising person. And so I wanted to grow up and be for what? I don't know why. I don't know if he had a beautiful wife that was a rich and could get me anything I wanted. That would be We don't know. It just for some reason hit me. And that's exactly what I went to school for. I went to school and I got a bachelor's in marketing and management with an associate's degree in advertising. One of my professors, and I was up in Michigan, and Detroit is a huge advertising town. It used to be. The advertising agencies are a lot different today than they were 35 years ago with digital marketing and so on. But he was Dr. Ellis. I remember his name. This is a long time ago. Then he came up with the concept of the very first light beer commercial, Taste Great, Less Filling, with Miller Light.


Speaker 1: And so I think he was a phenomenal professor. Life didn't fit me in the advertising. It was a super competitive field back then. The agencies, it's like the second that light beer goes to number two, you're fired, we're finding somebody else. You can be number one with a marketing or an advertising campaign for 20 years. The 25th year, if you drop down to number two, you're out of there. That didn't seem very appealing to me. I grew up, it was no longer that. I guess I did live my lifelong dream of being an advertising agency and marrying a good witch.


Speaker 2: I think I watched BeWitch one time as a teenager or something like that. That was my mother's One of my mother's favorite shows because that was her time. My mother and father are boomers. Let's see. We already got into a lot of this stuff. Let's see. All things come at a cost. What did it cost you going from working for enterprise to starting a mortgage to watching the mortgage industry implode to going to a cleaning business and now a recruiting business.


Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow. The enterprise thing was very interesting. It was a great company to work for. I was making about $70,000 a year as a 22, 23-year-old kid with a company car, a matching 401k, a mobile phone about the size of a house back then. I saw young men and women Making well into six figures, some into seven figures at enterprise. It was really, really just starting to be noticed back then. Today, it's just a phenomenal, huge company. Back then, there was a lot of opportunity to make a lot of money, but I could not take the corporate nonsense in treating me poorly. And that's what happened. I mean, I was treated poorly. I decided I couldn't take that and I was going to go out of my own. Now, about, I don't know, six or seven years ago, I went to Rent a Card enterprise. And I always would ask the guy or girl behind the counter, I'd say, hey, did you ever hear of Mike Cain or this or that or Jack Taylor? And he owned it and we talk. And I'd say, yeah, I used to work in Detroit and Mike Hawkins was like, oh, Mike, yeah, he moved to Cleveland and he's retired now, this and that.


Speaker 1: And he's like, yeah, he's making $100 million a year. And he's got this cushy job. He's trying to... And he was like my branch manager 30 years ago. If I was with the company, I'd be making millions and millions of dollars at enterprise. It took because of the timing of it and everything. I don't know if I would have been able to enjoy it. I don't know if I would have been able to deal with it, and I don't know that I would have been real happy. So I don't regret it. But, boy, I wonder about it, but I don't regret it. The mortgage business was a tough business. It's a lot like the restaurant business in that, man, when you're busy, you're busy, but when you ain't, you ain't. It's a lot. There's so many external factors, and you know this, at least for sure. When interest rates are low and the refi boom's there, you're basically just a normal taker going, yes, there's a $300,000 loan, there's a $500,000 loan. That's great. And you just move it through the system. You're working hard and so on. Now, there were some really difficult parts with that, too, where I remember one time being at the kitchen table of a couple and I ran a credit report, and he was on the break of bankruptcy, and his wife did not know this.


Speaker 1: She thought they getting ready to retire soon. And I'm looking at this going, this guy's got like $80,000 in credit card debt, and she doesn't know it. I'm at their kitchen table, and I can see him super nervous. And I'm like, I'm not going to... What am I going to do? So basically, he owned a convenience store and got addicted to the scratch offs and owed the state of Ohio with scratch, and it was just a nightmare. That's not a tough thing. It's not a tough thing when somebody is relying on you to refinance their house or they need to go bankrupt and lose their house. But I enjoyed it, and I enjoyed knowing things that their family didn't know and their best friends didn't know. And just trying to help them work through it. So you change somebody's life when you do those things. When I'm with the two external, rates go way up and all of a sudden the phone stops ringing and you got to pivot on some things. The government's very involved in that industry and that can change in a heartbeat. The cleaning business, I really liked it. I had a lot of employees.


Speaker 1: It was a pretty good business and it grew really well and I did pretty well at it, well enough to sell it and do pretty well selling it. And the recruiting thing is, again, mostly small businesses. So you've got people that are in small business that start out as technicians. And Michael Gerber's e-Myth book is perfect for this. It's basically a lot of small businesses start out as a technician. They're cutting hair at the salon. They are window cleaning at work time, maybe. They get some extra money. A lot fire men and women will start a cleaning business because they're already used to ladders and climbing and so on. And then all of a sudden they see they're making money at it. But what happens is they have no idea how to run a business. So then they start the employee They're trying to understand insurance and cash flow, my numbers and all this thing. And so it gets really difficult for them to create systems and processes to go through that and to grow a business and sustain a business with processes and systems. I have a lot of fun talking to them about that because I've experienced that.


Speaker 1: So when they come to me and we talk about recruiting and finding two window cleaners, I could be on the phone for an hour and a half having a conversation on your culture and on your leadership skills and that thing. So I really, really enjoy the recruiting. But the thing I love the most is I've got a podcast, too. I really enjoy doing that. I like being on your end of it as a host. And I also really enjoy speaking at different events. And I don't speak in front of thousands of people, but I speak in front of maybe 50 to 100 people, maybe 500 people at the most. And I love it. I absolutely love it.


Speaker 2: You touched on so much more so on learning people's business. And that's the one reason why I loved being an auditor, not so much an accountant, because I don't really dig in people's business like that. Well, I do. I do. But it's not as juicy as being an auditor because I got stories for days being an auditor. One story I'll never forget is I used to audit pensions, funny enough. And so there's not really pensions anymore, but 401(k), right?


Speaker 1: Yes.


Speaker 2: They actually changed the name of the job. They call it Employee Benefits Now. It's not a pension because they don't really exist. But one story was it was a Filipino lady. As you know, a small business, you start off with just you and your husband or your friend, your sister or whatever, and then you grow. When When you grow, you don't have separation of duties, which is a huge thing in a county. It was a Filipino lady, and she handled payroll and HR. One thing that she did was that she put her name on payroll more than one time, and she started off a little dollar amount. She was like, Oh, nobody checked. Then that turned into thousands and hundreds of thousands. It was sad because it was two brothers that started the company. One started accusing the other one of stealing. They were like, Are you stealing nothing? Come to find out it was the Filipino woman. This woman was married with kids. She left back to the Philippines, left her husband and her kids there and left. I don't know what happened with the story because I ended up changing to another job.


Speaker 2: I'm I'm wondering what happened to that because they were trying to prosecute her. Sure. There were attorneys on staff that would handle the prosecution and things like that. But I don't know what they would be able to do with her in the Philippines. Right.


Speaker 1: That could be difficult.


Speaker 2: But yeah, that's my best story right there. Oh, another one. It would be a lady, she would call in every damn week, every Every week she would call in. People are like, marriage is just a piece of paper. And I was not. She would call in and talk about my boyfriend, my fiance, my whatever. She was older and he was older. He ended up dying, and she thought she was going to get some benefits. No, ma'am. No, ma'am. Girlfriends don't get benefits. Fiancees don't get benefits. So you can call in. But she would call every week, and we would tell her the same thing, You don't get nothing, boo. That's all you were. We're just a boo.


Speaker 1: That's it.


Speaker 2: Women, men, because men get benefits, too. Women and men, it's not just a piece of paper. You need to get married because if somebody dies, you get zip, zero, nada, settle. Okay?


Speaker 1: That's a good point, man. That's a good point. And especially today, because a lot of people don't get married and they live together and that type of thing. Yeah, you're right. Never thought about that.


Speaker 2: You get nothing. All that little power of attorney and wills, that's easy to be broken, just so you all know. But a piece of paper such as a marriage certificate, that is not easy to be broken. Just throwing that out there. But those are my two favorite stories right there.


Speaker 1: Those are great.


Speaker 2: Then you touched on What else did you touch on? Because you touched on a whole lot between the mortgage and all that stuff. But yeah, you touched on what you love and didn't like and stuff, and that's actually one of my questions. But how did you decide on starting a mortgage company? Because nobody wakes up one day and say, Hey, I'm going to start a mortgage company. What is the process with that? Because I know it's heavily regulated. So...


Speaker 1: Yeah, well, now back then, this is like 35 years ago, so you basically just needed a pulse in a four-year degree, really. In a decent background check, I would imagine. You didn't have a lot of this stuff. There was no certificate Hits or none of this. I don't know what they do today. But it was very easy to become a licensed mortgage broker. And what had happened was I was doing really well in enterprise and I had decided I wanted to buy buy a couple of rental properties, and I did. And I think I had about six or seven houses at one time, single family homes that I was renting out. So I got a relationship with a mortgage broker. He'd take me golfing every now and again, and I had a relationship with him. And I really We became friends. And basically, when that day happened in enterprise, I called him and I said, Hey, how do you start a mortgage company? Because I'm about done with this thing at enterprise. And again, enterprise It was a great company to work for. It was one individual at enterprise. I want to make that clear because it was a phenomenal company to work for.


Speaker 1: But I said, I'm done here. I was treated really, really poorly and unjustifiably poorly. And just because I knew him and I was using him for financing the properties I was buying. And he talked to me a little about it. So I got my license in the state of Michigan, and I actually had a couple of employees. And then, as I said, I wanted to bring back my fiancé at the time, now my wife of 30 years, and get back to Cleveland to my family because family is huge for us. And we did. And so I decided I didn't want any employees. And I had known some people in the banking industry and mortgage business here in the title company. So I had that. I knew a couple of appraisers, and it all just came together really from a relationship I had with the mortgage broker I knew.


Speaker 2: That's That's what it was you touched on was the corporate life. I've been a government employee before I was even born because my parents. So that's all I ever knew. And at a certain And at that point, when I was in college or whatever, I was like, I'm going to go work for Google and all these things. And it just didn't work out that way. I love working for the feds. The feds have taken me to, I think, five or six different in America. So people are like, How did you go to all these places? The feds.


Speaker 1: My wife works for a city government. So she's been there 20 years, whereabouts. And it's a phenomenal job. I mean, really good benefits, and she enjoys it.


Speaker 2: Yeah, I did enjoy it. I enjoy every minute of it. I try to tell people about working for the government. But when I was doing the corporate thing, I didn't like it. And that goes back to the three, four, five, six, seven interviews and the puzzles and the mind questions. I just wasn't used to that. I'm shocked and surprised. I even got through to even work in corporate at a certain point because it's a disaster. It is. In comparison to working for the government, they'll have six questions and maybe one or two interviews.


Speaker 1: That's it.


Speaker 2: There's no crazy mind games. And the questions are for the job. Yeah, they're probably. Yeah, they're coming. The government may have a test, but it's still relatable to the job because they have to cut down it for some way. But But that's the only time I really cared to take a test because I knew that I was going to get some good benefits. They weren't going to work me more than 40 hours a week and all this other stuff. So, yeah, I'll gladly take a test for the government. But private industry, no. And corporate life is just a disaster.


Speaker 1: It is. And that's even more like high school than small businesses. It's, oh, my gosh. A lot of times it's the boys club. I am one that I prefer to... I don't like hanging out with the super successful, super wealthy, and listening to about money and listen about how great they are and all that stuff. I like the one that's hurting. My wife and I aren't even getting along because I can't figure this business thing out. I don't know if I should just scrap all these employees and just start from... And one of the favorite things I do at the end of a presentation, normally people will come up to me and have questions about what I spoke about. And every single time I have, there's usually one person And I see the corner of my eye waiting for everybody to go away. And then they come up to me and they'll say, Hey, do you have a couple of minutes? I really need to talk to you. And you see desperation in their face. And that, almost every single time that that happens, it's like a two or three hour conversation of them spilling their heart out to me about where they're at and where their struggles are.


Speaker 1: And when you're a small business owner, you don't separate your personal life. Your personal life is affected when you're not sure how to make payroll, when you're getting sued. That's hard. And it's hard to have a conversation with somebody that has never owned a business. It's a lot like you can't identify with You can't explain that to them. They don't identify the problems you're going through. So I really enjoy a small business owner much more than corporate and the boys clubs and all that stuff where it's just like you get this little niche of people hanging out together and they look down on you. I just think that's corporate, and I don't enjoy that atmosphere at all.


Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, definitely. When I was at Microsoft, there were a lot of people that looked down on me. There was a guy, he chose me out the audience and stuff, and he was like, What do you think about it? I was like, You know what? I barely graduated from high school. I barely graduated from college because see, you get degrees. But I'm sitting right here with you, and I'm pretty sure I've done more extraordinary things than you. And he didn't have anything to say.


Speaker 1: I love that.


Speaker 2: He might have went to Berkeley or something like that. That was my dream school. But I visited today and I didn't care to go anymore with all the homeless people over there. But anyway.


Speaker 1: Yeah, that's something.


Speaker 2: It scared me because I'm sure a small town probably comparable to Cleveland.


Speaker 1: Yeah, $300,000, not $3 million.


Speaker 2: Right. So that was never happening. But yeah, no, corporate life will literally freaking And scar you.


Speaker 1: When COVID comes around, you're done. If they can't use you, man, you're done. They don't care. Some small business will sacrifice and take home equity lines out of their homes to save your job sometimes. You're not going to see that at corporate.


Speaker 2: Yeah, no. I have to say that running a business, and especially in another country- Yeah, I Man, I can't imagine that. It has to have been one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. I'll say that being an entrepreneur, it really takes you there. I've never lost sleep being an employee, but I have lost plenty of sleep.


Speaker 1: Yeah.


Speaker 2: Being an entrepreneur.


Speaker 1: That's right.


Speaker 2: And not just because of payroll or something like that. It's just your mind constantly races with ideas and how you can do this and flip with that and, oh, this conversation I had with that person. That's when I came back and became an employee again because I didn't want to do that no more.


Speaker 1: It's not for everybody. That's for damn sure.


Speaker 2: I'm not one of those people, Oh, you can't find a job, become an entrepreneur. Well, maybe being a consultant is different because you're just one thing.


Speaker 1: But I would never, ever push entrepreneurship onto someone at all. No, it's a different ball game. It really is. Like you said, every entrepreneur, I know their mind It's going like this. And you look at Elon Musk and guys, they're just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. The mind is just crazy. And that's how our brains work. You've got a visionary in an integrator, the visionary, the entrepreneur is a visionary that just thinks they can... You give me a bunch of data. I think I can build a car with it. It's crazy. I'm just trying to figure something out. I can't focus on that. My team has to say, Sean, I thought we were doing this. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm sorry. Let me come back to this. Because I'm changing it right away. Give me the best tasting cake in the world and I'll change the ingredients right quick. That's just how I iterate. You're right. It's a different type of person.


Speaker 2: It certainly It is. I try not to talk to it. Talk to my father about it or my sister about it. I have a little group that I talk to about it because they're also entrepreneurs and stuff. I just talk and throw these crazy ideas at them, and they're like, It's fine. It's fine. Because I'm like, You know what? I'm just blabbering. I'm just thinking out loud on some dumb stuff. Should I do this or that? They're like, Yeah, it's whatever. Your mind.


Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right.


Speaker 2: You have to be with someone that understands that because I've been with someone and they didn't understand me, and that's why we're not together anymore. So it is what it is. They have to calm you down with your little overactive mind, and they have to listen to your dumb ideas and not get angry about it.


Speaker 1: Yeah, right. Because they understand it, and they've done it, too. And then they'll probably join in before they start talking with you. It's crazy.


Speaker 2: Man. Let's see. I guess, what are some traits? I mean, we're talking about it now. What are some traits that someone that wants to start a mortgage company or be an entrepreneur or a cleaning business or start a recruiting business? What are some traits that someone should have in these type of businesses?


Speaker 1: I think it's more important to understand people. As I talked about, having a really good perception leadership or perception management. The number one thing that you want to do if you want to grow a business is hire the best people you can afford, period. It's the thing you need to do. And you need to do the same thing with vendors, the best vendors in the world that you can afford. And when you do that and you have the right people in place, and especially if you're going to get a partner or something in business, you better make sure that you have the same values, the same vision, and really needs to be tied into that. And you got to be a risk taker. I mean, it's risky as hell being a business owner and entrepreneur. Sometimes you risk it a lot. You risk your time, you've got to sacrifice your time. When you get to a certain point, and I highly recommend hanging with people that are like minded that own businesses, whether that's a local BNI type of thing, a networking group, With the way things are with Zoom and everything else. There's plenty you can do online now that's free.


Speaker 1: There's some that I highly recommend a coach when you need one. Don't have an ego so big that you think you know it all. Don't reinvent the Big Mac. That Big Mac sells 10,000 a second. Don't change the sauce. And the people that's buying it, don't change it. Find somebody that's created that Big Mac already and is successful at it. And those are all things that you've got to have. You got to be a risk taker, wear the best, get the best people around you as possible that you can afford. And then just never, ever, ever, ever, ever, And just be as positive as you can day in and day out, no matter what nasty things come your way, because there's going to be nasty things on your way. And you better be able to plow through those things. There's this image of the guy, I think an old 49er or minor that's going like this. And you see him in the tunnel, and then he stops and he's done. He's through, he throws it down. And he only had one or two more times. And there was a big bar of gold waiting for him right there, but he'd stop.


Speaker 1: So you can never stop. You got to keep going and you got to keep hammering down because eventually, as long as you persist, you will succeed. And I've seen that happen with people that have a lot a lot less talent than I have, a lot less wisdom than I have. And they just were persistent and they just made it happen.


Speaker 2: It's funny you say, re:Invent the Big Mac. My mother used to say, re:Invent the wheel. Like, Elyce, don't re:Invent the wheel. It's already been invented. You don't have to add nothing to it. Like, a wheel is a wheel. You have me laughing because taco Bell is a perfect example. And they got rid of the Mexican pizza. And there was a taco Bell that me and my sister used to walk down the street when we were kids, and we would scrape up enough change to go get a Mexican pizza, or my favorite was a bean burrito. No onions.


Speaker 1: That's what mine was. No onions, yes. Would you do sour cream or no?


Speaker 2: No, no sour cream. Just- Okay.


Speaker 1: We parked there then.


Speaker 2: We parked there. Lots of sauce, extra sauce.


Speaker 1: When they got rid of the Mexican pizza, it was an uproar.


Speaker 2: I used to tweak taco When I had Twitter and tell them, Count your days, TACO Bell, because you're not going to be around for long. You got rid of Mexican pizza. And so they ended up bringing it back, probably because sales were happening. I have no reason to go to I'm not talking about you don't have the Mexican pizza anymore. Funny enough, I had one last week.


Speaker 1: Well, Coke was like that. Remember, Coke? They came out with a new Coke. An absolute nightmare And that was for Coca-Cola. New Coke came out in Newark. He liked it. I don't know how many billions of dollars they spent on that campaign and all the production of it, or maybe go back to the original Coke.


Speaker 2: Yeah, it was crazy because Big stars were tweeting, Taka Bell, and basically, count their days. You got rid of the Mexican pizza. Are you serious? And then they got rid of... I think my father said they brought back the Inchalito because they used to get that, too. Oh, yeah. Too. So I don't know if they brought that back. But yeah.


Speaker 1: That's so funny. Bingo burrito. I love it. Yeah, I love it. That's my thing. Yeah.


Speaker 2: But last question, and then we can cut it. Let's see. What would you tell someone that wanted to career switch? Because you've done all types of changes. And it's amazing. You're You are amazing for going from mortgage to cleaning to now recruiting. I mean, that takes all different types of skills and knowledge. And you did all that before the Internet got really popping, where you can't just Google something really quick. You actually had to go to the library and talk to people. I don't have to talk to you to get knowledge anymore.


Speaker 1: That's right. You're right. Thank you for that compliment, Elyce. What was the question again? I was sitting there going, She's being so nice.


Speaker 2: You were soaking it up. I know. What would you tell someone that wanted to... They're in a career or they're doing a business, and they're over it. They want to try something new.


Speaker 1: I would say that I'm a big believer on not overthinking things. Study long, study wrong, because you'll have the, what do they call that? The paralysis analysis, and you'll end up doing nothing but stirring in a wall and wondering why and regretting things and so on. I'm a big believer in just do it. I don't care what age you are. I don't care where you come from. I don't care what your experiences are. Just move. And when you are in a funk, which all of us get into a funk and we're in a bad place a little bit or a lot of it sometimes, that tends to be the time a lot of people stare at the wall and start wondering. I've got two things with that. Number one, immediately call somebody and just talk to a human being, not even necessarily about what you're going through. Just get out of Which leads me to my second thing. I went through a huge spiritual change in a change in my life when I turned 50. I'm 56 today. When I turned 50 and I sold my business, I was more than self-employed for more than half of my life at that time.


Speaker 1: I never saw this coming, but I lost complete identity of who I was. I was no longer a business owner for a short amount of time there. I had no idea who I was anymore, and it affected me deeply. And I got into a funk, a really bad place. My daughter was at an age where she was in her room now, doesn't need daddy. I'm no longer approaching her little baseball team. She was doing her little thing on her phone in her room. And I looked at that and said, my daughter doesn't need me anymore. Two weeks after I sold the business, me and my wife had an extra four hours together because I was usually working a lot of time, man. And after about two weeks of me going, Hey, honey, what do you want to do? She was just doing what she'd for all of our married life, which was about 25 years married at that time. She finally said, I don't know. I'm cooking dinner, go find or fix something for. I didn't hear that. I heard, My wife doesn't need me anymore. I didn't know where I was in the world at that time.


Speaker 1: And I can tell you the one thing that got me out of it and changed everything for me was I understood, finally, and it took me a couple of years to get out of this, I understood that the more I think about Sean Day, the more trouble I got in, the more worried I was, the more regretful I was, the more shameful I felt because I was stuck and I couldn't figure it out. I started to call people and I called mom and I saw somebody one day that was hurting really bad that I went to high school with. I called him and I started going over and seeing how he was doing. I do a lot of things for other people today because when I think about Sean Day too long, I get in a lot of trouble and I get a lot of things that are goofy in my head. I need to think about other people and serve other people. If I had anything to tell, and I tell my kids this all the time, stop thinking about yourself and go serve somebody else. And that could be a written note, a handwritten note.


Speaker 1: Go send it to somebody. Help somebody. You are out of your funk when you start focusing on other people.


Speaker 2: No, I have to agree with I have to agree with that. I remember when my mother, me and my sister, were finally out of the nest at the same time. And my sister had came and stayed a month at our old house that we grew up in and everything. She left, and then I came. We weren't there at the same time. Then after I left and stuff, my mother was crying on me and stuff. I'm like, What the hell are you crying for? We were just there. There. I'm older now, and I understand. But like you said, she wasn't useful anymore, I guess. She didn't know what to do with her time. That ain't going to happen to me, though, because I've had plenty of time in my 30s to collect and just be free. I loved every freaking minute.


Speaker 1: I'm trying to find me something to do.


Speaker 2: But like you said, service. Service is something that people... I don't know why people don't do it because it makes you feel good. It helps other people. And at a certain point, you get all this wisdom and you can actually help people because you can't really do that when you're 21.


Speaker 1: Right. No, you're right. That's a whole different ball game at age.


Speaker 2: Yeah. So now that I'm closer to 40 and all that stuff, I'm like, Oh, okay. I actually have something to say because my mother used to say, I remember when you didn't used to have anything to say, you got all these opinions now. You're like, I don't care.


Speaker 1: That's great. I'm sorry. As long as you're you, you might as well be you, right?


Speaker 2: Yeah. But we can end it there. Shawn, tell us where to find you. Sure.


Speaker 1: So You can go to our website, which is hireleadchill. Com. That's one way. I've got a Facebook group called Hire Lead Chill. Talk about recruiting and hiring great people and leadership and culture and all those things. And you can message me on Facebook. You'll find me anywhere on Facebook for sure, because I do a lot of stuff on there with podcasts, Facebook Live and things like that. So hireleadchill. Com or just look for a Hire Lead Chill group online on Facebook. And that's the best way to reach me.


Speaker 2: All right, you all. You all heard it from Shawn. My name is Elyse Robinson with the Nobody Wants to Work, though podcast. And I will see you all again next week.